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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Core Researcher
Not You Fat Jesus
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Posted - 2013.02.14 14:02:00 -
[1] - Quote
hi,
I am here to suggest that the cost of ganking a freighter should be higher than the ~1bn ISK it currently is.
Looking at it for a freighter pilor's point of view:
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ship investment: ~1.3bn ISK
So immediately on gank the Freighter pilot loses ~300m in comparison to the gank fleet
(1.3bn ship - 1bn gankfleet).
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cargo: as things currently stand freight pilots are aware that anything worth over a bill puts a target on them. Therefore your cargo will always be worth 1bn ISK or less. Ive seen courier packages smaller than a pea with 1bn ISK collateral.
so now on gank the Freighter pilot loses ~1.3bn in comparison to the gank fleet
((1bn collateral + 1.3bn ship) - (1bn gankfleet))
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gankfleet: if the freighter cargo drops and the capacity to scoop the cargo is there the cost of the gankfleet could be covered. To pick a number out of the air lets say an average 500m drops from a Freighter.
we are now looking at Freighter pilot loses ~1.8bn in comparison to the gank fleet
(((1bn collateral + 1.3bn ship) - (1bn gankfleet)) + 500m dropped)))
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Dont pilot what you can't afford to lose.
I agree with this statement. I think freighters should be gankable. My issue is the cost of ganking one to the parties involved. Freighters should be gankable at a cost that is equivalent to the minimum comparative cost to the freigher pilot.
using the numbers above the average gankfleet should cost 2.3bn ISK to put together.
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Core Researcher
Not You Fat Jesus
1
|
Posted - 2013.02.14 14:08:00 -
[2] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Its 2.5 billion.
The cost of the average gankfleet?
ah.
Well if this is true I just wasted like 10 minutes writing this hehe. |
Core Researcher
Not You Fat Jesus
1
|
Posted - 2013.02.14 15:29:00 -
[3] - Quote
Mai Khumm wrote:HeavensAngel wrote:Mai Khumm wrote:Posting in an obvious "CCP, please patch stupid" thread.
They (tried) to patch stupid with the mining barges, now it's moved onto Freighters.
I have an awesome idea!
Why not pull your heads out of each others asses and fly smart.
Like bring ECM and Logistical support.
Not put billions of ISK worth of crap into it's hold.
Oh, that's too complicated?
OK then, keep feeding the gankers the killmail and loot, fly like complete morons.
Then go on the forums and constantly post over and over again, begging CCP to patch stupid...
wondering what ECM and Logistics will help when your freighter gets killed by an alpha strike ... but thats just my 2 cent I've done it several times. *Looks at inventory and skillsheet, then personal losses.* Looks like I'm a Freighter and JF pilot, with no losses. *Checks former indy corps killboard* Sees several kills. Huh, looks like it works to me. So there is a proven way to defend against Freighter ganking.
Core Researcher wrote:Dont pilot what you can't afford to lose.I agree with this statement. I think freighters should be gankable. My issue is the cost of ganking one to the parties involved. Freighters should be gankable at a cost that is equivalent to the minimum comparative cost to the freigher pilot. using the numbers above the average gankfleet should cost 2.3bn ISK to put together.
So first my quote answers your post. Im not against ganking. You are being overly hostile in your reaction to a cause of debate.
I would also like your explanation for the 'proven way to avoid gank'. This technique should invole no more than one pilot please. |
Core Researcher
Not You Fat Jesus
1
|
Posted - 2013.02.14 16:22:00 -
[4] - Quote
Mai Khumm wrote:
This is an obvious "CCP patch stupid thread" and the way to prevent being ganked requires a support fleet. You asking for "This shouldn't involve more then 1 person" is stupid beyond measure. And yes, I'll explain this way. Get at least 8 friends, half in Falcons, half in Basilisks or Scimitars. Jump through gate, Falcons uncloak and lock target gank ships, Basilisks uncloak and chain up and preoverheat everything. Freighter begins to warp, logis begin to rep, and it takes coordination between the falcons and targets, spread jams when targets go GCC. It takes more then one volly per ship, unless you use like 20 alpha gank ships.
ok. So,
(a) if you are a freighter pilot and CCP say "" hey look that Core Researcher has somethinge lets double the EHP of freighters," why do you care so much? You get double EHP for nothing.
(b) a lot of freighters run solo - truckers of space. Why do you think it is reasonable for pilots to have an 8 ship fleet at their command everytime they haul?
(c) if i was going to use a fleet i would use 1 freighter and 1 webber. 8 ships is plain stupid. Unless your next response can answer these basic questions I call Troll. |
Core Researcher
Not You Fat Jesus
1
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Posted - 2013.02.14 16:55:00 -
[5] - Quote
Mai Khumm wrote:Core Researcher wrote:Mai Khumm wrote:
This is an obvious "CCP patch stupid thread" and the way to prevent being ganked requires a support fleet. You asking for "This shouldn't involve more then 1 person" is stupid beyond measure. And yes, I'll explain this way. Get at least 8 friends, half in Falcons, half in Basilisks or Scimitars. Jump through gate, Falcons uncloak and lock target gank ships, Basilisks uncloak and chain up and preoverheat everything. Freighter begins to warp, logis begin to rep, and it takes coordination between the falcons and targets, spread jams when targets go GCC. It takes more then one volly per ship, unless you use like 20 alpha gank ships.
ok. So, (a) if you are a freighter pilot and CCP say "" hey look that Core Researcher has somethinge lets double the EHP of freighters," why do you care so much? You get double EHP for nothing. (b) a lot of freighters run solo - truckers of space. Why do you think it is reasonable for pilots to have an 8 ship fleet at their command everytime they haul? (c) if i was going to use a fleet i would use 1 freighter and 1 webber. 8 ships is plain stupid. Unless your next response can answer these basic questions I call Troll. Instead of using proper precautions and common sense, you're asking CCP to "fix stupid" and in your case ignorant. Thanks for proving my original point... Good day sir. o7
yep.I certainly proved something. Enough time wasted on you i think.
Jump freighters are an even bigger issue it seems from the replies so far.
it takes original calcs and adds 5bn more into the mix. |
Core Researcher
Not You Fat Jesus
1
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Posted - 2013.02.14 17:01:00 -
[6] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:No, freighters and jump freighters are fine. They do not need to be changed or fixed.
thank you your omnipotence, glad you could set us all straight with your reasoning and debate. |
Core Researcher
Not You Fat Jesus
1
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Posted - 2013.02.14 20:23:00 -
[7] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Core Researcher wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:No, freighters and jump freighters are fine. They do not need to be changed or fixed. thank you your omnipotence, glad you could set us all straight with your reasoning and debate. You haven't demonstrated that anything needs to change. Until then the default assumption is that nothing needs to change.
really?
So to run a few comparisons:
you lose your battleship but the game then charges you an additional 100m isk for your 'cargo'.
you lose your battlecruiser but the game then charges you an additional 50m isk for your +šargo'
and you would be happy with this?
You wouldnt ask for balance
then we get the usual terribad response people roll out to this debate time and time again (looking at you trollface):
dont try to play solo in an MMO.
Fine - lets lock all mission gates, explorations sites, complexes, belts and pvp unless there is more than 1 player trying to access them/it.
No one will complain right, cause its an MMO durrrrr
Galaxy Pig wrote:Wow, what a terrible idea. ISK tanking is the stupidest thing anyone ever thought of.
and here is a representative for the gankers. Sorry another representative. |
Core Researcher
Not You Fat Jesus
1
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Posted - 2013.02.14 23:50:00 -
[8] - Quote
lots of strawmen, personal attacks, tangents and other EvE forums type stuff here, as expected.
Very entertaining, highlights include:
Razor Alliance
that one person that posts like they would like to punch me in the face they are sooo angry.
anyway.
SUICIDE GANKING.
This is the point.
In the particular case of suicide ganking it DOES matter the comparative costs of the ships.
You are saying "we are prepared to put this much at stake to attack you in high security space and we are prepared to accept the consequences."
There is no war-dec or flashy red or yellow here, just a cold calculation: cost vs risk vs reward.
So I did not make these rules, the game did.
You know who agrees with me?
CCP.
You know how I know this?
Mining barges.
There will always be, and should always be, pilots autopiloting with too great a value in cargo. There should be room for the truckers of space to take a few more courier jobs before they become targets. |
Core Researcher
Not You Fat Jesus
1
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Posted - 2013.02.15 00:30:00 -
[9] - Quote
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:Core Researcher wrote:In the particular case of suicide ganking it DOES matter the comparative costs of the ships. What you're suggesting is that the entire game be bent around the issue of suicide ganking. You want freighters to be harder for EVERYONE to kill, because they might be ganked. Alternatively, you want to make popular gank ships more expensive--or freigheters less expensive--in order to rectify this perceived imbalance. Core Researcher wrote:You know how I know this?
Mining barges. it would take a LOT of catalysts to equal the value of a hulk. Far more than are required to gank one. You just lost the debate for yourself, well done.
ill bite.
If you are at war and u catch a freighter would double the EHP matter? triple?
You catch it in low sec, null sec, wormhole space, would it really matter?
You are zeroing in on the "make this more expensive" or "this less expensive" aspect.
What is really being debated here is an increase in EHP for a freighter, not an increase in cost for anything. The OP didnt make that clear but we're all clever dudes here in EvE right?
I dont see your point on the Hulk either tbh?
Hulks were cheap to gank. Mining barges were buffed and players were given an option of tank or yield. So now it takes many more SUICIDE GANKERS to kill a tanked mining ship.
So what was your point exactly and how did i lose any debate? |
Core Researcher
Not You Fat Jesus
1
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Posted - 2013.02.15 01:40:00 -
[10] - Quote
again, you zero in on the one thing but its what you dont say that is more interesting.
Yes, Hulks and Macks can still be ganked.
The glaring ommision here is the other 4 mining ships that are no longer as cheap to gank.
and frankly having seen a freighter killed solo by a vagabond I am doubtful about the arguments raised against a HP buff.
Perhaps the way to go would be to follow the mining ships: split freighter into high capacity/low tank through to low capacity/high tank. |
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